No Halladay Celebrating?
December 16, 2009 by TAB BAMFORD
Filed under Fan News
First, a recap of the supposed three-four team deal that is supposed to take place once all the i’s are dotted and t’s crossed:
Wednesday morning comes with news of a snag in the blockbuster, though.
According to Bob Elliot of the Toronto Sun, someone, somewhere in this deal has apparently failed their physical, and the entire deal(s) will be placed on hold.
Undoubtedly, as this news evolves, the deal could change dramatically. If Drabek is hurt, are the Phillies willing to move JA Happ? If Taylor is injured, will inability to move him to Oakland for Wallace kill the deal? Heaven forbid either Halladay or Lee is hurt!
The news will continue to break on this. Keep watching for updates.
Read more Philadelphia Phillies news on BleacherReport.com
No Halladay Celebrating?
December 16, 2009 by TAB BAMFORD
Filed under Fan News
First, a recap of the supposed three-four team deal that is supposed to take place once all the i’s are dotted and t’s crossed:
Wednesday morning comes with news of a snag in the blockbuster, though.
According to Bob Elliot of the Toronto Sun, someone, somewhere in this deal has apparently failed their physical, and the entire deal(s) will be placed on hold.
Undoubtedly, as this news evolves, the deal could change dramatically. If Drabek is hurt, are the Phillies willing to move JA Happ? If Taylor is injured, will inability to move him to Oakland for Wallace kill the deal? Heaven forbid either Halladay or Lee is hurt!
The news will continue to break on this. Keep watching for updates.
Read more Philadelphia Phillies news on BleacherReport.com
Roy Halladay Deal Proves the Phillies Are Good, but They Ain’t the Yankees
A year ago, if you had told me that the Phillies would trade for Roy Halladay, and that I, like most Phillies fans, would be a little disappointed about it, I would have never believed you.
Halladay is a star pitcher, formerly of the Toronto Blue Jays. He won the 2003 American League Cy Young Award and is generally considered among the top five pitchers in baseball.
While I am thrilled that the Phillies are gaining his services, I am still slightly disappointed by the team’s actions.
Last year at the trading deadline, when the Blue Jays made it clear that they were open to trading Halladay, the Phillies were thought to be one of the leading candidates. Halladay had a no-trade clause, meaning he could veto any trade. But based on reports, the Phillies met most of his criteria for a trade destination: an East Coast team and a contender, and their Spring Training complex in Clearwater, FL is near his home.
However, Blue Jays J.P. Ricciardi made insanely high trade demands for Halladay that the Phillies would not meet. The Blue Jays were asking for the Phillies’ top pitching prospect Kyle Drabek and their top hitting prospect Dominic Brown, as well as pitcher J.A. Happ, who was already a key part of the Phillies’ major league roster. It was reported that they wanted some other top prospects included as well.
This trade would have decimated their farm system and hurt their current major league roster.
Wisely, the Phillies balked at those demands, and when the Blue Jays didn’t relent, they decided instead to trade for Cleveland Indians pitcher Cliff Lee. Lee wasn’t as highly regarded as Halladay—although certainly no slouch since he did win the 2008 AL Cy Young Award—and therefore they were able to get him for a much lesser haul of prospects, none of whom looked to be major contributors to the Phillies in the near future.
The deal was a successful one, as Lee was good in the regular season and amazing in the playoffs. Without him, the Phillies probably don’t win the National League and might have been swept in the World Series. Even if Lee had been a free agent after the World Series, it would have been considered a good deal.
Lee is going to be a free agent after the 2010 season, so naturally, the Phillies tried to get him to sign a contract extension. But his agent kept saying that Lee wanted to hit the open market and get the best deal possible. Ace pitchers are hard to come by, and it was likely that teams would be willing to give him a lot of money.
Also, the Phillies do not like signing pitchers to contracts longer than three years (probably a good idea since if you look at pitchers signed to long-term deals, the teams almost always regret it), and it looked like they would have to in order to re-sign Lee. There was the very real possibility that they would lose him to free agency.
Meanwhile, Toronto hired a new GM (Ricciardi was fired, and the nail in the coffin may have been his mishandling of the Halladay situation) and once again made it clear that Halladay would be available. Since it was a season later, the trade demands would be lower.
An added bonus is that if they traded for Halladay, he would probably sign a (slightly) below market extension, meaning that they wouldn’t have to worry about losing or overpaying him after the season.
The Phillies were once again rumored to be the leaders to get Halladay, and Phillies fans began to dream of a pitching rotation led by Halladay, Lee, and Cole Hamels, who despite his troubles last year does have ace material and was the 2008 World Series MVP.
With those three at the front of the rotation, it would be hard to beat the Phillies in a playoff series. (Sure, they’d still have to make the playoffs, but with those three pitchers leading their lineup, probably the only thing that could stop them would be a few major injuries.)
Anyway, word started to spread on Monday that the Phillies were indeed going to trade for Halladay. The euphoria lasted only a few seconds before it was announced that they would then trade Lee to the Seattle Mariners for prospects.
Instead of having two star pitchers at the front of the rotation, they would have only one—and it wouldn’t be the one who had already proven himself to be a postseason star.
Why did the Phillies ruin their fans’ dreams of having the best pitching rotation in the majors? There are a few reasons.
First, even though the demands were lower, trading for Halladay still came with a high price. They had to give up Drabek, along with two other highly rated prospects. Combined with the prospects they traded to Cleveland for Lee last season, the Phillies’ minor league system had been greatly diminished.
They were able to get three good prospects (although not rated as highly as the ones they gave up) from the Mariners in exchange for Lee.
Probably the more crucial reason they traded Lee was because having both Lee and Halladay in the rotation would have cost the Phillies too much money in payroll.
When the subject comes to money, Phillies fans always get a bit edgy. The team has long been perceived as being cheap and unwilling to spend money on premium free agents. Fans blame the team’s cheapness for why they spent so many years without making the playoffs.
This is only partially true. The Phillies did give decent contracts to players in the ’90s, only it often gave them to the wrong ones (Gregg Jefferies for example). The bigger reason why the team wasn’t any good was because their minor league system never produced any good players. Still, the Phillies often claimed that they didn’t have enough money to truly compete for the best free agents available.
As the decade turned, the Phillies began to build a new stadium, which would provide them with much more revenue than their old one. Ownership claimed that they would use this added income to build a better team—and they actually lived up to their word. After years of not going after the biggest names on the market, suddenly they were signing expensive players like Jim Thome and David Bell.
Anyone who follows baseball knows that sports economics are a bit messed up. Smaller market teams essentially serve as feeders for the larger market teams. Teams in the smaller markets are essentially forced to trade star players before they hit free agency, because they know that once they become free agents, they’ll never be able to afford them.
This is essentially why players like Cliff Lee and Roy Halladay were available. Their teams wanted to get something for them instead of watching them walk away for nothing.
For years, the Phillies had been one of the teams that traded away their stars. Early in the decade, they essentially gave away Scott Rolen and Curt Schilling and then watched them win the World Series on other teams. So for Phillies fans, it was a very nice change of pace to have them as one of the big market teams that can take advantage of this.
Except maybe Phillies fans got a little too caught up in things, because it caused them to forget something:
They ain’t the Yankees.
There are small market teams, and then there are big market teams—and in a category all by themselves are the New York Yankees.
The Yankees are dangerous because they have, by far, the most money and the willingness to spend whatever it takes to win. Last year, when CC Sabathia and Mark Teixeira were free agents, the Yankees were able to sign them both simply by blowing everyone else away.
(Yankees fans can feel free to mention that those players also signed due to the Yankees’ championship-level core and the desire to play in New York, but really, in the end, money talks and BS walks.)
If the Yankees were in this situation and had the chance to obtain both Halladay and Lee, knowing that it would give them a great shot at another world title, would they have done it? Yes, I think they would have.
To the Phillies’ credit, it clearly wasn’t all about money. They could have pretty much given away Joe Blanton, since his salary is similar to Lee’s this season, and he will also be a free agent after the season. But while Blanton is a good mid-level starting pitcher, they wouldn’t have gotten nearly the quality of prospects they received for Lee.
Of course, had they not signed Jamie Moyer to a two-year contract before last season, they’d also have more money available. (I like Moyer, but even before last season it was questionable how much he had left. Signing him to a two-year deal seemed a bit too much.)
The funny thing is, if you had gone a year back in time and asked Phillies fans, “If you won another pennant and then went into the following season with Roy Halladay, would you be happy?” I think everyone would have given a resounding YES! But once the dream of “Halladay AND Lee” entered their minds, then only having one of them became a huge disappointment.
On the surface to Phillies fans, here’s what it looks like: They got rid of their ace pitcher (a postseason hero at that) for a different ace pitcher. In doing so, they gave up a lot of minor league prospects that they’ve been hearing so much about.
Part of the problem is that as fans of a baseball team, you not only become attached to the players on the roster, you also become attached to the prospects. Teams love to tout the “hot prospects” they have brewing in the minor leagues.
Last year, when the Phillies were first talking about trading for Halladay, we heard all this talk about how good guys like Kyle Drabek and Michael Taylor were going to be. While counting on prospects is a bad idea (there are thousands of “can’t miss” prospects who missed and missed badly), when you hear so much hype about them, it’s only natural to get excited.
While they may have gotten some prospects back from Seattle in exchange for Lee, it’s tough for Phillies fans to get that excited about them. They’ve been hearing about how great Drabek and Taylor are going to be. They haven’t heard anything about Phillippe Aumont or Tyson Gillies because they’ve been in the Seattle system.
In reality, it isn’t like the Phillies are in a bad situation. Sure, they have traded a lot of prospects, but keep in mind that the prospects traded last season already helped them earn a National League pennant.
More importantly, they now have one of the best pitchers in baseball (ultimately, most people think he’s even better than Cliff Lee) under their control for the next few seasons, while they were probably only going to get one more season out of Lee.
While the prospects they traded away may develop into stars, you have to ask who will help the Phillies more in the next three years: the prospects or Roy Halladay? I’ll take my chances with Halladay.
As it stands now, the Phillies will go into next season as the favorites to win the National League once again. If they had kept Lee, they would have been an overwhelming favorite, but it might have left their minor leagues even more barren than they are now.
While that may seem like a small concern, keep in mind that injuries happen, and it’s nice to be able to replenish the roster from the minor leagues or possibly use those minor leaguers to make a trade. After all, you never know when a small market team will be looking to trade away one of their players.
Of course, they might get outbid on that player by another team, maybe even the Yankees. Because if there’s one thing that 2009 has taught me, it’s that while the Phillies are good, they ain’t the Yankees.
This article originally published on my blog: http://thecutterrambles.wordpress.com
Read more Philadelphia Phillies news on BleacherReport.com
Roy Halladay Deal Proves the Phillies Are Good, but They Ain’t the Yankees
A year ago, if you had told me that the Phillies would trade for Roy Halladay, and that I, like most Phillies fans, would be a little disappointed about it, I would have never believed you.
Halladay is a star pitcher, formerly of the Toronto Blue Jays. He won the 2003 American League Cy Young Award and is generally considered among the top five pitchers in baseball.
While I am thrilled that the Phillies are gaining his services, I am still slightly disappointed by the team’s actions.
Last year at the trading deadline, when the Blue Jays made it clear that they were open to trading Halladay, the Phillies were thought to be one of the leading candidates. Halladay had a no-trade clause, meaning he could veto any trade. But based on reports, the Phillies met most of his criteria for a trade destination: an East Coast team and a contender, and their Spring Training complex in Clearwater, FL is near his home.
However, Blue Jays J.P. Ricciardi made insanely high trade demands for Halladay that the Phillies would not meet. The Blue Jays were asking for the Phillies’ top pitching prospect Kyle Drabek and their top hitting prospect Dominic Brown, as well as pitcher J.A. Happ, who was already a key part of the Phillies’ major league roster. It was reported that they wanted some other top prospects included as well.
This trade would have decimated their farm system and hurt their current major league roster.
Wisely, the Phillies balked at those demands, and when the Blue Jays didn’t relent, they decided instead to trade for Cleveland Indians pitcher Cliff Lee. Lee wasn’t as highly regarded as Halladay—although certainly no slouch since he did win the 2008 AL Cy Young Award—and therefore they were able to get him for a much lesser haul of prospects, none of whom looked to be major contributors to the Phillies in the near future.
The deal was a successful one, as Lee was good in the regular season and amazing in the playoffs. Without him, the Phillies probably don’t win the National League and might have been swept in the World Series. Even if Lee had been a free agent after the World Series, it would have been considered a good deal.
Lee is going to be a free agent after the 2010 season, so naturally, the Phillies tried to get him to sign a contract extension. But his agent kept saying that Lee wanted to hit the open market and get the best deal possible. Ace pitchers are hard to come by, and it was likely that teams would be willing to give him a lot of money.
Also, the Phillies do not like signing pitchers to contracts longer than three years (probably a good idea since if you look at pitchers signed to long-term deals, the teams almost always regret it), and it looked like they would have to in order to re-sign Lee. There was the very real possibility that they would lose him to free agency.
Meanwhile, Toronto hired a new GM (Ricciardi was fired, and the nail in the coffin may have been his mishandling of the Halladay situation) and once again made it clear that Halladay would be available. Since it was a season later, the trade demands would be lower.
An added bonus is that if they traded for Halladay, he would probably sign a (slightly) below market extension, meaning that they wouldn’t have to worry about losing or overpaying him after the season.
The Phillies were once again rumored to be the leaders to get Halladay, and Phillies fans began to dream of a pitching rotation led by Halladay, Lee, and Cole Hamels, who despite his troubles last year does have ace material and was the 2008 World Series MVP.
With those three at the front of the rotation, it would be hard to beat the Phillies in a playoff series. (Sure, they’d still have to make the playoffs, but with those three pitchers leading their lineup, probably the only thing that could stop them would be a few major injuries.)
Anyway, word started to spread on Monday that the Phillies were indeed going to trade for Halladay. The euphoria lasted only a few seconds before it was announced that they would then trade Lee to the Seattle Mariners for prospects.
Instead of having two star pitchers at the front of the rotation, they would have only one—and it wouldn’t be the one who had already proven himself to be a postseason star.
Why did the Phillies ruin their fans’ dreams of having the best pitching rotation in the majors? There are a few reasons.
First, even though the demands were lower, trading for Halladay still came with a high price. They had to give up Drabek, along with two other highly rated prospects. Combined with the prospects they traded to Cleveland for Lee last season, the Phillies’ minor league system had been greatly diminished.
They were able to get three good prospects (although not rated as highly as the ones they gave up) from the Mariners in exchange for Lee.
Probably the more crucial reason they traded Lee was because having both Lee and Halladay in the rotation would have cost the Phillies too much money in payroll.
When the subject comes to money, Phillies fans always get a bit edgy. The team has long been perceived as being cheap and unwilling to spend money on premium free agents. Fans blame the team’s cheapness for why they spent so many years without making the playoffs.
This is only partially true. The Phillies did give decent contracts to players in the ’90s, only it often gave them to the wrong ones (Gregg Jefferies for example). The bigger reason why the team wasn’t any good was because their minor league system never produced any good players. Still, the Phillies often claimed that they didn’t have enough money to truly compete for the best free agents available.
As the decade turned, the Phillies began to build a new stadium, which would provide them with much more revenue than their old one. Ownership claimed that they would use this added income to build a better team—and they actually lived up to their word. After years of not going after the biggest names on the market, suddenly they were signing expensive players like Jim Thome and David Bell.
Anyone who follows baseball knows that sports economics are a bit messed up. Smaller market teams essentially serve as feeders for the larger market teams. Teams in the smaller markets are essentially forced to trade star players before they hit free agency, because they know that once they become free agents, they’ll never be able to afford them.
This is essentially why players like Cliff Lee and Roy Halladay were available. Their teams wanted to get something for them instead of watching them walk away for nothing.
For years, the Phillies had been one of the teams that traded away their stars. Early in the decade, they essentially gave away Scott Rolen and Curt Schilling and then watched them win the World Series on other teams. So for Phillies fans, it was a very nice change of pace to have them as one of the big market teams that can take advantage of this.
Except maybe Phillies fans got a little too caught up in things, because it caused them to forget something:
They ain’t the Yankees.
There are small market teams, and then there are big market teams—and in a category all by themselves are the New York Yankees.
The Yankees are dangerous because they have, by far, the most money and the willingness to spend whatever it takes to win. Last year, when CC Sabathia and Mark Teixeira were free agents, the Yankees were able to sign them both simply by blowing everyone else away.
(Yankees fans can feel free to mention that those players also signed due to the Yankees’ championship-level core and the desire to play in New York, but really, in the end, money talks and BS walks.)
If the Yankees were in this situation and had the chance to obtain both Halladay and Lee, knowing that it would give them a great shot at another world title, would they have done it? Yes, I think they would have.
To the Phillies’ credit, it clearly wasn’t all about money. They could have pretty much given away Joe Blanton, since his salary is similar to Lee’s this season, and he will also be a free agent after the season. But while Blanton is a good mid-level starting pitcher, they wouldn’t have gotten nearly the quality of prospects they received for Lee.
Of course, had they not signed Jamie Moyer to a two-year contract before last season, they’d also have more money available. (I like Moyer, but even before last season it was questionable how much he had left. Signing him to a two-year deal seemed a bit too much.)
The funny thing is, if you had gone a year back in time and asked Phillies fans, “If you won another pennant and then went into the following season with Roy Halladay, would you be happy?” I think everyone would have given a resounding YES! But once the dream of “Halladay AND Lee” entered their minds, then only having one of them became a huge disappointment.
On the surface to Phillies fans, here’s what it looks like: They got rid of their ace pitcher (a postseason hero at that) for a different ace pitcher. In doing so, they gave up a lot of minor league prospects that they’ve been hearing so much about.
Part of the problem is that as fans of a baseball team, you not only become attached to the players on the roster, you also become attached to the prospects. Teams love to tout the “hot prospects” they have brewing in the minor leagues.
Last year, when the Phillies were first talking about trading for Halladay, we heard all this talk about how good guys like Kyle Drabek and Michael Taylor were going to be. While counting on prospects is a bad idea (there are thousands of “can’t miss” prospects who missed and missed badly), when you hear so much hype about them, it’s only natural to get excited.
While they may have gotten some prospects back from Seattle in exchange for Lee, it’s tough for Phillies fans to get that excited about them. They’ve been hearing about how great Drabek and Taylor are going to be. They haven’t heard anything about Phillippe Aumont or Tyson Gillies because they’ve been in the Seattle system.
In reality, it isn’t like the Phillies are in a bad situation. Sure, they have traded a lot of prospects, but keep in mind that the prospects traded last season already helped them earn a National League pennant.
More importantly, they now have one of the best pitchers in baseball (ultimately, most people think he’s even better than Cliff Lee) under their control for the next few seasons, while they were probably only going to get one more season out of Lee.
While the prospects they traded away may develop into stars, you have to ask who will help the Phillies more in the next three years: the prospects or Roy Halladay? I’ll take my chances with Halladay.
As it stands now, the Phillies will go into next season as the favorites to win the National League once again. If they had kept Lee, they would have been an overwhelming favorite, but it might have left their minor leagues even more barren than they are now.
While that may seem like a small concern, keep in mind that injuries happen, and it’s nice to be able to replenish the roster from the minor leagues or possibly use those minor leaguers to make a trade. After all, you never know when a small market team will be looking to trade away one of their players.
Of course, they might get outbid on that player by another team, maybe even the Yankees. Because if there’s one thing that 2009 has taught me, it’s that while the Phillies are good, they ain’t the Yankees.
This article originally published on my blog: http://thecutterrambles.wordpress.com
Read more Philadelphia Phillies news on BleacherReport.com
For Phillies, Acquiring Roy Halladay Is Great, but Giving Up Cliff Lee Is Insane
December 16, 2009 by Cliff Eastham
Filed under Fan News
By CAESAR CLIFFIUS
I am still scratching my head, wondering why you would make a lateral move with two of the best pitchers in baseball.
Phillies, what were you thinking? Roy Halladay is one of the best pitchers in the game today, and it is true that everyone else wants him on their squad.
That is poor reasoning for trading him for the best pitcher you already had. That would be like trading Adam Dunn straight up for Adrian Gonzalez. What are you gaining? It is trading power for power, run production for run production.
I don’t know that I would trade Cliff Lee for Halladay. Roy is two years older than Lee and has been worked like a rented mule. In 12 seasons, he has pitched 2,046 innings. Lee, in eight campaigns, has thrown just 1,196 innings.
The following comparison is based on 162-game seasons:
In clutch situations throughout his career (two outs, RISP) Lee’s opposing batters are hitting just .238, while Halladay fares a little better at .223.
More to the point of this article, it makes no sense trading a No. 1 starter for a No. 1 starter. That isn’t bolstering or fortifying your rotation, it is merely adding an iota of strength to your No. 1 position.
This deal is part of a complicated three team trade with the Toronto Blue Jays and Seattle Mariners. Lee would be packing his bags for Seattle if everything works “according to Hoyle.” The Mariners would be sending pitcher Phillipe Aumont and outfielder Tyson Gillies to Philadelphia.
The Phillies are tentatively sending outfielder Michael Taylor, catcher Travis d’Arnaud and pitcher Kyle Drabek to Toronto.
Seattle filled a need by adding to their staff, throwing Lee in the rotation which has been anchored by Felix Hernandez.
The Phillies already had a decent staff with Lee, Cole Hamels, Pedro Martinez, Joe Blanton and Jamie (Methuselah) Moyer on standby.
Halladay and Lee, both Cy Young Award winners, are still excellent pitchers. Halladay is a throwback to the sixties and before, when a starter was expected to finish what he started. Lee, a more “new age” type, is able to give you a quality start seven out of 10 times.
Six or seven strong innings is as much as most clubs require from a starter now, with specialty relievers in the pen.
Who benefited most from this trade?
Please visit my website where this article was first published.
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Halladay for Lee Just Makes Cents for Phillies
December 16, 2009 by scott eisenlohr
Filed under Fan News
After the Phillies made the blockbuster trade for All-Star pitcher Roy Halladay, it was posed to me why didn’t the Phillies go for broke and keep both Halladay and the Seattle-bound Cliff Lee?
It’s all about the P’s: Prospects and Payroll.
When the Phillies traded for Lee last July, they gave up pitchers Carlos Carrasco and Jason Knapp, along with catcher Lou Marsdan and shortstop Jason Donald. That was four of the Phillies top minor league prospects.
Gone from the Pharm in the Roy Halladay deal were prized chip pitcher Kyle Drabek, outfielder Michael Taylor and catcher Travis D’Aranud.
Another three top chips in the Pharm, including the best chip, Drabek, the son of former major league pitcher Doug Drabek.
And payroll?
The Phillies have stated they wanted to keep the payroll at about $140 million.
To keep Lee, scheduled to make $9 million this year and Halladay, at roughly $20 million, the payroll would jump to about $160 million. And the Phillies would not have that.
In the deal, the Phillies get prospects Phillipe Aumont and Juan Ramirez, both pitchers and outfielder Tyson Gilles, all from Seattle.
They also get $6 million from Toronto in the deal.
Prospects and payroll out, prospects and money in.
Done.
They also felt they could sign Halladay to three years or more, while Lee strongly suggested he would go free agent after 2010.
I will tell you this: Halladay would not come to Philadelphia, if he could not get a long-term deal. It is reported he will get a five-year, $100 million contract. The first three years are at $20 million per year, with an option on the next one or two years.
The Phillies also could not see signing both Lee and Halladay long-term.
The Phillies generally go one year on high reward, low risk pitchers, like Pedro Martinez and perhaps John Smoltz.
Then why not keep Lee for this year and go for broke?
They would have to dump pitcher Joe Blanton, who should make $7 million this year to keep both Lee and Halladay.
Apparently, now you keep Blanton.
It could be possible to keep both Halladay and Lee, but it is not the way the Phillies do business.
What could have been.
But how can you argue with three straight National League East crowns, two World Series appearances and one World Series title in the past three years?
The Phillies are not done, I can feel it.
When you got the chance to get baseball’s best pitcher, you do what you have to do.
Makes cents to me.
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Halladay and Lee Moves Are Good for the Phillies
December 15, 2009 by Ray Gassert
Filed under Fan News
Preface: Cliff Lee was undeniably awesome in most of his starts for the Phillies in 2009.
Unfortunately, the Phillies are not owned by Comcast Spectacor and do not have an endless revenue stream. Phillies fans must also realize that Ruben Amaro, Jr. would like to keep his job past 2010. So, while the fans would like to sell out for 2010, RAJ must maintain the health of the franchise while still improving the current model. He has done that this week, if all reports are indeed true.
Let’s get some housecleaning out of the way first.
Roy Halladay is the best RH Starter in the game right now. He is better than Cliff Lee. Sort of like saying that $100 is more than $99, I know, but still better. He is also, according to all reports, giving the Phillies a discount in years and dollars for the chance to join the two-time defending NL Champs.
While Cliff Lee won the 2008 AL Cy Young and was amazing in his first five starts with Philly and his first four postseason starts, he was rather pedestrian in six of his other seven starts for the Phils. That inconsistency is not found in Roy Halladay. Lee also does not have nearly the body of work that Halladay has, and is only about a year younger.
With all that said, of course it would have been fantastic to have Roy Halladay on the bump followed by Cliff Lee. But it was never going to happen because RAJ needed to insure the long-term health of the team.
Most reports, though being spun a bit now by Lee’s agents, stated that Lee wanted to cash in on what would likely be his last big money deal. Well, with Halladay in the mix, the Phillies would not be able to afford $30 million a year going to two players. So Lee would have left as a Free Agent.
So if you’re in the camp that says that the Phils should have gone over budget this year for the sole purpose of going all-in for 2010 and then recouping two draft picks after Lee leaves, you’re forgetting a big “if.” Say Lee leaves for the riches of the Yankees. And then the Yankees also sign another tier one FA.
Guess what? The Phillies only get one draft pick now. Considering the BoSox would likely be in on Lee as well, that scenario is quite likely. You think Milwaukee would have traded for Sabathia knowing not only that he would sign with NY, but that AJ Burnett would sign there, too; thus costing them one of their compensatory picks?
As for the prospects that Philadelphia is sending off, to the best of my knowledge, no “prospect” has ever won a World Series. Kyle Drabek and Micheal Taylor have their faults and their merits, but just bear in mind that few big time pitching prospects ever pan out. The Phillies have also kept the prospect they consider most important in Domonic Brown. They also, according to reports, have managed to keep JA Happ.
So the Phillies have basically traded Jason Donald, Carlos Carrassco, Lou Marson, Jason Knapp, Kyle Drabek, Travis d’Arnaud and Michael Taylor for Roy Halladay, Ben Francisco, Phillipe Aumont, Travis Gilles and $6 million of Toronto‘s money.
Four guys who probably never make the big club, one guy ranked organizationally lower than the guy the Phils kept, the fourth ranked C in the system and the No. 1 pitching prospect for the best right-hander in the game, a competent fourth OF and a pitching prospect with as much upside as Drabek.
Not too shabby. And they keep Domonic Brown if Werth leaves after 2010. Gilles has potential to take over in CF should Shane Victorino price himself out of town.
Remember that Toronto had asked for Drabek, Taylor, Brown and Happ in July.
RAJ did a masterful job getting this done.
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A Timeline of How the Roy Halladay-to-Philadelphia Phillies Deal Was Done
December 15, 2009 by Nick Poust
Filed under Fan News
It all started at Noon, Pacific Time, on Monday, Dec. 14 when Jim Salsbury of CSNPhilly.com reported that the Phillies were “actively talking” about a contract extension Halladay and his agent. At the time, this made little sense, given there had been no news of a trade taking place (one would have to be complete before a contract can be discussed).
Then, Salsbury reported, according to his source, that Halladay and his agent had checked into a hotel in Philadelphia, and that Halladay would take a physical, thereby putting the finishing touches on a trade that no in the media knew about. Who would be in the deal? What kind of contract was Halladay going to sign?
Cliff Lee, whom Philadelphia wouldn’t have been able to sign long term, headed to the Great Northwest, to Seattle.
Rumors went flying, as all of the sportswriters from media outlets, and those covering the teams, began to cite sources and speculate. Salsbury began the circus, reporting that there were “indications that pitcher Cliff Lee could be traded.”
Yes,
An hour after Salsbury’s initial report, Sports Illustrated ’s Jon Heyman added excitement to the story, tweeting that “a three-way trade has been agreed to with Halladay going to the Phillies and Lee to the [Seattle] Mariners. The Phillies are now trying to sign Roy to an extension.” Hold your horses: In a subsequent tweet , Heyman apologizes for a “quick trigger finger” and says “[The] Mariners [are] definitely the third team. Checking now [if] Cliff Lee is the pitcher they get.” On top of that, MLB.com’s Noah Coslov reported that a deal had not been confirmed by Lee or the Mariners. Were Heyman and Salsbury just bored? They knew the Phillies had inquired about Halladay in the past. Was this just a fabrication? They thought they had confirmation, then they it turned out they didn’t. Lee knew nothing about an impending deal. This could have been a rouse just to fire up the Hot Stove. Prospects were named, going every which way, the likes of Heyman, and FoxSports’ Ken Rosenthal and John Morosi “heard.” At first, the deal was structured as this: Halladay would go to the Phillies, Lee would join the Mariners, and the Blue Jays would obtain Mariners catching prospect Travis D’Arnaud , either Dominic Brown or Michael Taylor , two touted outfield prospects in Philadelphia’s system, and another player. Mariners pitching prospect Phillippe Aumont was named as a candidate to be that other player. The Phillies didn’t want to part with Kyle Drabek, but in order to trade for Halladay, they had to part with the gifted right-hander. ESPN’s Jayson Stark then reported Philadelphia was trying to complete a two-team deal for Halladay with Toronto, and that the Mariners only entered the fray when the Phillies refused to include prized pitching prospect Kyle Drabek in the deal, someone they refused to include during their midseason discussions as well. Then came two reports that proved to be false, hurting the credibility of so-called “sources.” “People” told Bob Eliot of the Toronto Sun Aumont would not be part of the deal, and Rob Maaddi of the Associated Press wrote that Philadelphia starting pitchers J.A. Happ and Joe Blanton, and Brown took physicals, and could be part of the trade. Not surprisingly, Aumont was in fact part of the trade, while none of Happ, Blanton, and Brown were included. Salsbury, having not said a peep since the initial report, stated six hours after the fact that Drabek and “other [Phillies] prospects” will be involved . Philadelphia anted up to include a pitcher of such talent, but they would make up for the loss. Not only would they acquire Halladay, but Aumont, Mariners outfield prospect Tyson Gillies and pitching prospect Juan Ramirez —two players previously unmentioned–as well. This is their haul for Lee, a pretty solid one at that. The deal was set. The Phillies would obtain Halladay and the aforementioned prospects off Seattle’s farm. The Mariners would obtain one year of Lee, and that’s it. And the Blue Jays, the team that asked for a King’s ransom midseason, would acquire Drabek, D’Arnaud, and Taylor. Halladay followed by signing a three-year extension through 2013 (with an option for 2014) worth $60 million, considered a bargain for his services. Michael Taylor, a power hitter who is ready to play in the majors. Leave it to Beane to snag him. The deal was set, but not complete. It wouldn’t be a blockbuster for the ages without Billy Beane joining in on the fun. The Oakland Athletics General Manager, knowing Taylor wasn’t high on Toronto’s list, tempted the Blue Jays with third baseman prospect Brett Wallace, whom Beane acquired in the midseason trade that sent Matt Holliday to the St. Louis Cardinals. Toronto agreed, and Taylor, a 6′6,″ 240-pound, 23-year old with incredible power, became a member of the A’s. Reaction The Phillies couldn’t afford to trade for Halladay and keep Lee. Believe me, if their payroll would allow, both veteran aces would be atop their rotation for years to come. Acquiring Halladay alone would have been a poor move by Philadelphia, so General Manager Ruben Amaro Jr. was a genius to include the Mariners in the deal. He used Drabek after all, but acquired three great prospects: Aumont is near major-league ready, and could be installed into their currently shaky bullpen; Gilles is just 21-years old, and is a ways off, but he has tremendous speed and a bit of power; Ramirez has excellent velocity on his fastball, but though he is a project, if he learns how to pitch instead of throw, and continues to develop secondary pitches, he has the talent to be a starting pitcher atop a rotation a few years down the road. The Blue Jays don’t get as much as they would have liked for Halladay, but still, the trio they acquired were coveted for a reason. They wanted a major-league ready catcher in any deal, but D’Arnaud doesn’t fit the bill. He’s talented, but he’s only 20-years old, and his highest minor league level is High-A ball. Look for him to suit up behind the plate for the Jays come 2011. Drabek, 23, has electric stuff worthy of a top-pitching prospect. He might need another year in the minors, but could be called up midseason if all goes well. He’s that good. The Mariners acquired one year of Lee. This gives them perhaps the best one-two punch in the majors, as he joins Felix Hernandez atop their rotation. But it’s only for one year. Seattle has to lock up Hernandez long term, and may not have enough to sign Lee to an extension as well. One year of Lee for three prospects? I’m not sure that’s a good move, considering there are still many vastly superior American League teams. On the bright side, they didn’t have to include pitcher Brandon Morrow or outfielder Michael Saunders, their second-ranked prospect. And finally, Beane once again made an intelligent move. Wallace (whom the Blue Jays will plug in at first base) will be very good in Toronto, but the A’s acquired a stellar athlete in Taylor. Knowing Beane, Taylor will be used right away, given the General Manager’s infatuation with young, major-league ready talent. Two aces and eight prospects traded, and many other names speculatively bandied about. In all, what a trade.
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Roy Halladay, Phillies Agree to Extension to Complete Blockbuster Deal
December 15, 2009 by tom dougherty
Filed under Fan News
To complete the blockbuster trade that will net the Phillies their second Cy Young winner in five months, Roy Halladay has agreed to a $60 million three year contract extension with a chance at a fourth year either guaranteed or a vesting option.
Halladay took his physical early Tuesday morning, and an official announcement is expected on Wednesday in a press conference at Citizens Bank Park.
Along with Halladay, Philadelphia acquired $6 million from Toronto to help out with his 2010 contract. Halladay’s new pact will pay him an average annual salary of $20 million, according to reports.
Halladay, 32, went 17-10 with the Blue Jays last season while posting a 2.79 ERA with a Major League leading nine complete games in 239 innings pitched.
To get Doc from Toronto, the Phillies sent top pitching prospect Kyle Drabek , outfielder Michael Taylor , and catching prospect Travis d’Arnaud . ESPN.com reported that the Jays will then turn Taylor to Oakland for third baseman Brett Wallace .
In a separate trade, the Phils shipped an ace in his own right, Cliff Lee , to the Seattle Mariners in exchange for prospects Phillippe Aumont , J.C. Ramirez , and Tyson Gillies .
Acquired a couple days before the trade deadline for four prospects who will turn out to be nothing better than average MLB players, Lee posted a 3.39 ERA in 12 starts in the regular season with the Phillies.
Ruben Amaro Jr. knew that he needed to acquire an ace at the deadline last year, and everyone knew that Halladay was his first choice; however, he wasn’t willing to pay Toronto’s price so he went with the next best option in Lee.
This move has been reported as a three team trade, but it’s not that at all. These were two separate trades made by the Phillies: one to acquire Halladay, and one to restock the farm system.
In an ideal world, the Phils would have kept both Halladay and Lee, but given Amaro’s strict $140 million budget, it wasn’t possible unless they moved other parts like Joe Blanton and a fielder like Raul Ibanez or Shane Victorino .
If they did have both for the upcoming season, the payroll would be upward of $160 million. The ownership will not OK Amaro to go that much over the budget while there are still holes on the roster.
Remember, the Phillies still have to revamp the bullpen somehow. Keeping Lee and his $9 million salary for the 2010 season along with Halladay’s $16 million wouldn’t allow them to bring in a bullpen arm like Fernando Rodney or John Smoltz .
While having Halladay and Lee to go along with Cole Hamels would have given the Phillies the best rotation in all of baseball, people need to remember that Hamels can be just as effective if not better than Lee was last year.
Despite having a miserable 2009 season, Hamels is still young enough to rebound and mature into the pitcher he showed he can be in 2008 when he won the Phillies their first championship since 1980. Without Cole, they wouldn’t have won the World Series.
In more ways than one, Amaro is banking a lot on Hamels in this coming year. But he’s putting his head on the line for Halladay, the guy he wanted all along.
For more Philadelphia sports coverage, please go to my blog: The Broad Street Scoop.
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The Facts on the Roy Halladay Trade and Contract Extension
December 15, 2009 by Ben Livingston
Filed under Fan News
Anybody who has followed the Phillies’ pursuit of Roy Halladay over the past few days is quite aware of the complexity of the proposed trades to acquire him. Several teams are directly or indirectly involved, and it’s even been suggested that the full trade package be broken down into three separate two-team deals.
However, given the fact that each proposed trade is contingent on the one before it being accepted, the deal is perhaps best examined as a four-team deal, despite the fact that it is not officially so. Viewing the trade this way allows us to see the broader impact of the trade by connecting the dots in a more logical fashion.
However, it is important to remember that there are three separate trades being negotiated here: Phillies/Jays, Phillies/Mariners, and Blue Jays/Athletics. The first two of these are dependent on one another. The third trade would happen if and only if the first two do.
The Phillies have reportedly come to terms on a contract extension for Halladay, clearing the way for the first two pieces of the trade to take place. With that deal inked, it appears that the full trade package is very close to completion.
As it stands now, this is what multiple reports suggest the trade would look like:
Blue Jays Receive
C Travis d’Arnaud (from PHI)
P Kyle Drabek (from PHI)
3B Brett Wallace (from OAK)
Mariners Receive
P Cliff Lee (from PHI)*
Phillies Receive
P Roy Halladay (from TOR); sign Halladay to contract extension (see below)
P Phillippe Aumont (from SEA)
OF Tyson Gillies (from SEA)
P Juan Ramirez (from SEA)
$6 Million (from TOR)
Athletics Receive
OF Michael Taylor (from PHI via TOR)
Details of the Halladay Extension
Agreed upon; reportedly for three years and at least $60 million, with the very slight possibility of options for a fourth a fifth year.
*It is rumored that Lee may not be the only player headed to the Mariners.
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