Cliff Lee Lost in Philly during “Halladay” Season
December 15, 2009 by Michael Kirshenbaum
Filed under Fan News
If last July you were to tell me that the Phillies would acquire Cliff Lee for marginal prospects, make a big run to the World Series only to get stopped by the powerhouse, money driven, New York Yankees, I wouldn’t believe you.
Not amidst a season in which our closer had one of the worst years on record. Not amidst a season in which our so-called “ace” had been marginal at best, going through a ton of freak injuries due to him not ever wanting to leave the banquet room for the training room. Not amidst a season in which our shortstop was about as much of a threat at the plate as Desi Relaford.
But all changed when the Phillies got their man, granting the second choice to the now incumbent ace Dr. Roy Halladay.
There has never been a pitcher that I had such an immediate love for other than Clifton Phifer Lee. Everything about him, his “ghost throw” to centerfield before he began his warm-up pitches, his personality that seemingly put him on a Greg Maddux plane, wherein you knew he only thought of one thing on the mound and that was pitching.
Unlike our “ace” twice reseeded in Mr. Hamels, Lee is not out there thinking about his son Jackson, who has overcome many obstacles in his short, yet stressful life. He is thinking about pitching and succeeding for his team.
On the eve, or whatever you may call it, of the Phillies trading Lee for Doctor Roy Medicine Man, I cannot help but think of what could have been. A 1-2 tandem of Lee/Halladay would have reigned supreme over baseball. The entire league would fear this Phillies team.
Granted, the Phillies have now been in the World Series for two consecutive years and won in 2008, but the Lee/Halladay tandem would have simply been even more of a growth for a franchise that has done nothing but that since its miraculous division championship in 2007.
Ruben Amaro has done a great job of upgrading his ball club over the first two years of his tenure as Phillies general manager, replacing Pat Burrell with Raul Ibanez, after Burrell, his wife Michelle, and dog Elvis, led the parade down Broad Street. Even more recently Amaro has replaced defensive wizard, yet poor contact hitter Pedro Feliz, with a more sure thing at the plate in one-time Phillie Placido Polanco.
But this is a first for Amaro, and almost a never for most GMs—trading your recently acquired Cy Young Winner for another Cy Young Winner. Obviously, Halladay has been Amaro’s obsession since becoming GM prior to the 2009 season. I typically agree with Amaro, fixing what is not broken, but in this case I just feel a void.
I know everything there is to know about this story. Lee supposedly would not accept an extension and wanted to test the market, fine. Halladay, however, has never played for a winner in his near Hall of Fame career, and wants the chance to win, which is why he’ll accept a “discounted” contract at three years/$60 million with two options for 2014 and 2015.
What really gets me most is hearing about the Phillies not wanting to go over the $140 million payroll that apparently was set by the anonymous ownership group who nobody has ever met, heard of, or seen.
These anonymous owners can’t break the bank even though just 10 short years ago the Phillies were playing in front of about 11,000 people a game in a gigantic, concrete mess of a stadium. They now play in a beautiful modern stadium, with 45,000 a night, even in games again the lowliest teams such as the Nationals.
I refuse to take this as an excuse for not being given at least one year of heaven with Lee and Halladay together. I break the bank to buy Phillies tickets, take trips to Clearwater, buy shirts and other assorted gear, but the Phillies can’t do the same for me?
Maybe I’m being selfish, but I just think I am being realistic. For the Phillies to compete with the Yankees and Red Sox for the near future, they truly need Lee teamed up with Halladay to bring another parade down Broad Street. In order to keep me coming back and spending my hard earned money on the franchise, they will need to offer me more than a rotation of Halladay, Hamels, Happ, Blanton, and Moyer/Kendrick.
These days Hamels is about as much of a sure thing as Carlton Loewer, and Happ is still somewhat unproven. Finding a way to go above and beyond competition is something the Phillies have never done. By losing Lee, while gaining Halladay, you have not progressed at all for 2010. The only thing certain is that I will quietly be rooting for the best tandem in baseball, King Felix and Cliff Lee, pitching in Seattle in 2010.
Cliff, I hardly knew ya, but I know one thing is for sure, you will be missed.
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Roy Halladay Trade Fallout: Did Philadelphia Phillies Need To Include Cliff Lee?
December 15, 2009 by josh levitt
Filed under Fan News
The inclusion of Cliff Lee in the Roy Halladay trade has to be a hotly debated topic amongst Phillies fans. While I’m sure there are many who are thrilled to have acquired Halladay, the realization that the Phillies gave up their best starting pitcher in the process has to add some sting to the deal.
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Phillies, Bluejays, and Mariners Three-Way Deal
December 15, 2009 by Micah Chen
Filed under Fan News
MLB.com reports that the Mariners, Blue Jays, and Phillies are working on a three-way deal that would involve the Bluejays receiving top prospects.
The Bluejays would get two of these three, Phillip Amount, Brandon Morrow, or Michael Saunders, from the Mariners. The Phillies would give up supposedly-untouchable, prized-gem Kyle Drabek to the Bluejays.
In return, the Mariners would receive Cliff Lee, and the Phillies would receive Roy Halladay.
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Thanks, Cliff Lee: It Was Good While it Lasted
December 14, 2009 by schmitters
Filed under Fan News
Though it isn’t official yet, the Phillies have reportedly traded for Toronto Blue Jays’ ace Roy Halladay.
The only con is that the Phillies likely have traded away ace Cliff Lee in the process. There is still a chance he may not be included in the deal, though it is unlikely.
The deal will certainly be followed with mixed emotions from Phillies fans, especially considering what Lee did for them last year.
Lee was traded to the Phillies on July 29. He was an immediate success in Philadelphia, winning his first five starts. During that span, he had a 0.68 ERA.
During the regular season, he pitched in 12 games. He had a record of 7-4 with a 3.22 ERA. He struck out 74 batters in 79.2 innings.
He also threw three complete games, including one shutout.
During the postseason, Lee pitched in five games and was absolutely flawless. He was 5-0 with a 1.56 ERA and 2 complete games.
But now, the Cliff Lee era (which last three months), is over. Bring on Roy Halladay!
But thank you Cliff, it was good while it lasted.
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With Roy Halladay in Philly, Mets Must Retaliate
December 14, 2009 by Michael Ganci
Filed under Fan News
Well, as I write this, I am still a bit shell-shocked by today’s developments, so let me back up a bit and confirm what I think should be processing in my head.
The Red Sox are close to signing John Lackey to a five-year deal worth around $85 million. I have no problem with that. Anything that puts a frown on Yankee fans’ faces puts a smile on mine. I think that is a secret to nobody.
Then, the real drama, as it pertains to the Mets, happened. The Phillies approached Cliff Lee about a contract extension, and he effectively told them that he was going to become a free agent, whether they liked it or not.
The Phillies decided that they need to prepare for the long haul, so what do they do? They feel around for offers, bring the Mariners and Blue Jays together, and boom! The Phillies have agreed to deal.
Not just any deal, they are nearing completion of a deal that would get them Roy Halladay.
Yes, you heard that right: Roy Halladay.
When I first heard the news, I did not know how to react. Matt Falkenbury and I spoke for awhile about it, and he told me that many of the bloggers out there were freaking out, but I couldn’t react the same way. In fact, all I could do was laugh, because on any given day anything can happen.
So I decided that I need to get serious. And so do the Mets. Enough of this jockeying for position crap. The Phillies have just landed a big blow to the sternum, and it is time to retaliate with a strong uppercut. Now, I know it looks like the Mets can’t do that from a pitching standpoint, but they need to make an impact signing, and there are only two names on the board that qualify as such.
Jason Bay and Matt Holliday.
Now, I know that Holliday is younger, but it seems like Mets management prefers Bay, and people around baseball say the Mets expect to hear back about their offer this week. Unfortunately, I think the news of Lackey coming off of the board and Halladay being traded is going to make some teams panic. And you know what happens when people panic? They make irrational decisions.
I think a team is going to emerge out of the woodwork soon to sweep either Bay or Holliday off of their feet. That means the Mets will be that much closer to landing nothing, and that just can’t be an option right now. We have to sign one of these guys. Enough games. Make a move, and make it now.
It’s going to be tough to top the Phillies’ move. Halladay might be the best pitcher in baseball. Can you believe that there will be games at Citi Field that could feature Johan Santana versus Roy Halladay? I know. I am not sure who is the better pitcher either, but I am sorry to say that I think I would have to lean towards Halladay.
It’s quite apparent. The Mets need to retaliate, and they need to do it now.
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Halladay Nears Deal To Become Phillies’ Ace
December 14, 2009 by scott eisenlohr
Filed under Fan News
Roy Halladay was in Philadelphia today with his agent, which likely will signify the former Toronto Blue Jays‘ ace arrival in Philadelphia and former ace Cliff Lee’s departure.
The report was cited on ESPN.com.
Cliff, we hardly knew ya.
Seattle is the third team involved.
Along with Lee, according to Sport Radio 610-WIP on the Howard Eskin show, prospect Dominic Brown will be part of the deal from the Phillies.
I am not sure who Seattle gives up, but they probably get Brown in the deal.
What this comes down to is that while Halladay wants a long-term deal, Lee wants to test the market when he becomes a free agent after the 2010 season.
Lee was 7-4 with the Phillies and was outstanding in the postseason and World Series.
Lee is scheduled to make $9 million this year, which will go a long way to pay Halladay’s scheduled $20 million a year as part of a five-year $100 million contract.
I have some disappointment in losing Lee, but realize that you couldn’t take on both salaries.
Joe Blanton could also be moved to clear out more salary.
That would potentially leave a rotation of Halladay, Hamels, Happ, and a yet-to-be-named fourth starter.
I would like it better if they kept Blanton for a rotation of Halladay, Hamels, Blanton, and Happ.
Lee, 31, was 14-13 last year with the Indians and Phillies with a 3.22 ERA. For his career he is 90-52.
Halladay, 32, was 17-10 last year with the Blue Jays, with a 2.79 ERA and a career record of 148-76.
If they Phillies and Halladay cannot agree on money, the deal will not get done.
It would be nice to have a rotation of Halladay, Lee, Hamels, Blanton/Happ, but not likely.
Who do you think the Phillies are? The Yankees?
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Philadelphia Phillies Swap Aces: What’s the Deal?
December 14, 2009 by David Rosenblum
Filed under Fan News
Update: After endless hours of changing stories the picture is starting to become clearer. Essentially, the Phillies are making two trades:
– Trade #1: Phillies receive Roy Halladay and $6 million from the Blue Jays in exchange for prospects Kyle Drabek, Michael Taylor, and Travis D’Arnaud
– Trade #2: Phillies trade Cliff Lee to the Mariners in exchange for prospects Phillippe Aumont, Tyson Gillies, and Juan Ramirez
What baffles me in this scenario is Trade #2. It doesn’t make any sense! The Phillies are making two completely separate trades which is much different than the earlier scenario of them using the Mariners to receive prospects that they could pawn off to the Blue Jays for Halladay. In this scenario the Phillies are trading Cliff Lee and three prospects (essentially 7 prospects if you count the four that we gave the Indians for Lee in July) for Roy Halladay, two prospects, and $6 million. That is an awefully steep price to pay even though Halladay is perhaps the best pitcher in the game.
My main concern is the Phillies reasoning for depleting their farm system for a slight upgrade. I’m aware that Cliff Lee wants to test free agency after the 2010 season and he will cost an arm and a leg if that happens so it’s best to lock up the best starting pitcher for a few years over taking the chance that Lee wouldn’t resign. I understood the trade and why everything was happening the way it was until a few of the remaining pieces were divulged: the $6 million, Kyle Drabek, and the fact that they were two SEPARATE trades!
The Phillies are concerned about their payroll, which they should be since it would approach $160 million with Halladay and Lee, but hear me out here. The Blue Jays are giving us $6 million. Joe Blanton has one year left on his deal and his contract is at $7 million for the 2010 season. Cliff Lee is set to make $9 million in 2010. Why wouldn’t the Phillies just deal Blanton and keep Lee? They would be $4 million better off and would have the most dominant pitching staff in the major leagues with Lee, Halladay, Hamels, Happ, and a 5th starter that is still TBD.
It just doesn’t make sense to me that the Phillies wouldn’t go all out for 2010 and work to keep Lee in the mix for this season! The World Series showed us that the Phillies need two dominant starters to beat a team like the Yankees and keeping Lee in the fold would do give us that. If Halladay is ready to sign a 3-4 year extension then why should he care if we keep Lee for 2010? I doubt he would want the team to be worse considering he has never been to the playoffs in his career and would love to get a World Series ring before hanging up his cleats.
If you were Ruben Amaro, Jr. and you had to make this decision would you put together the best team you possibly could, or would you settle for 2nd best? I know what I would do, but hey, I’m not the GM.
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Roy Halladay To Philadelphia, Cliff Lee To Seattle
December 14, 2009 by christian karcole
Filed under Fan News
Sports Illustrated is reporting that the Philadelphia Phillies have acquired Roy Halladay from the Toronto Blue Jays. The Phillies are also said to have dealt Cliff Lee to the Seattle Mariners, who are included as a third team.
The rest of the players in this blockbuster deal are yet to be confirmed.
Halladay, 32, is expected to sign a contract extension with the Phillies to complete the deal.
Lee, 31, was acquired by the Phillies at the trading deadline this past season. Much of the speculation was that it would be Halladay the team would trade for midseason, but negotiations with Toronto fell through and they looked elsewhere.
Until now.
Initially, I was torn on how I felt about the swap. It is difficult to evaluate a trade so shortly after it breaks, especially with only two of the players’ names being released.
Yet, after some thinking on what we know, there is a whole lot to be happy about from the viewpoint of the Phillies.
First of all, Halladay has been just as efficient as Lee was in ’09 for his entire career. With Lee, you have an ace who has only seen major success in two of his seven seasons.
Halladay, on the other hand, has finished in the top five in AL CY Young voting five times, including one year in which he won the award.
What Lee was able to do in the postseason was spectacular, but let’s not forget how shaky he was to finish off the season. Halladay is much more consistent and has quite a pedigree to back him up.
Second, Lee was, more likely than not, going to test the open waters of free agency after this season. Halladay, on the other hand, has reportedly signed an extension.
Rather than retaining Lee for just one more season, the Phillies were able to bring in a top–of–the–line ace who will be around for a few extra years.
Third, the Phillies are also bringing prospects in from Seattle. This may not be what made them pull the trigger, but it sure helped.
Kyle Drabek was considered untouchable, so either Michael Taylor or Dominic Brown were likely sent to Toronto. Receiving a few prospects in return to help strengthen the system is always a positive.
Lastly, nearly every decision Ruben Amaro Jr. has made as general manager has been golden. Until he makes a monumental mistake that puts the team in jeopardy of competing on the field, we need to have trust in him.
Before making your own personal judgment on the trade, take a step back and think: would you rather have an ace who has only performed at the level of an ace for two seasons for one more season or an ace who has been just that his entire career for a few more years?
Sure, Lee was tremendous in the postseason and for a better part of the regular season. But so was Halladay, and he has been doing it much longer.
You will not see much fluctuation from the performance of Lee in ’09 to the expected performance of Halladay in ’10. The difference is that it is assured that Halladay will be around past this season.
Give Roy Halladay the same amount of admiration and respect Cliff Lee was given, and I can almost assure you he will not disappoint.
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National Winter Meetings Review: NL East
December 14, 2009 by William Yoder
Filed under Fan News
Each year GM’s from across the league come together and meet in one place and talk hardcore baseball, these are the Winter Meetings. It’s the Black Friday of baseball’s shopping season, and the springboard that leads into MLB ‘s Hot Stove offseason.
The meetings wrapped up last week and to review the action The Nats Blog is going to get reviews from top blogs across the league. Today will be the NL East, here will be the schedule for the rest of the week:
12/16-NL Central; 12/17-NL West; 12/18-AL East; 12/19-AL Central; 12/20 AL West.
Team Name: Atlanta Braves
2009 Record: 86-76
Team Needs: 1st baseman, utility infielder, outfielder, several bullpen arms
Team Moves: Extended Tim Hudson; signed Takashi Saito and Billy Wagner; released Ryan Church and Kelly Johnson; traded Rafael Soriano for Jesse Chavez
Winter Meetings Grade: C+
Evaluation: The most noteworthy aspect of the Braves’ offseason so far was Frank Wren’s miscalculation on Rafael Soriano, who wound up accepting arbitration after Wren had publicly predicted that he wouldn’t, forcing Wren to trade Soriano for a scrap arm from the Rays . There was no room or money for Soriano after Wren had already spent $10 million on Wagner and Saito, who are aging but still intriguing, particularly outside the launching pad in Fenway. Money issues also prompted the non-tender of bench OF Ryan Church and IF Kelly Johnson, whom the team might welcome back at a lower price.
Wren and Cox have identified the team’s biggest remaining need as offense, but it’s not clear where that will come from: Cox has disavowed interest in Jason Bay and Matt Holliday, and the team refused to offer arbitration to 1B Adam LaRoche. The team has no serious internal options for 1B, so they’ll need to fill it with a free agent or a trade. Outfield is less clear: Matt Diaz and Nate McLouth will be back, and Cox has indicated Jason Heyward will be given the chance to win the RF job in spring training, though at least one of those positions really ought to be upgraded—Diaz isn’t very good against RHP, and McLouth’s CF offense and defense are both average at best. A higher offseason grade will depend on how Wren improves the offense.
Team Name: Philadelphia Phillies
2009 Record: 93-69 (NL Champs)
Team Needs: Pitching of all kinds, 3B
Team Moves: IN: Placido Polanco, Ross Gload, Brian Schneider, Juan Castro, DeWayne Wise, Wilson Valdez, Cody Ransom OUT: Brett Myers, Matt Stairs, Pedro Feliz,
traded for Roy Hallaay
Winter Meetings Grade: B
Evaluation : Looking at the in/out team moves above it might be difficult to understand a B rating; that might be the least exciting group of free agent signings in recent memory. I applaud the front office for being direct and successful in signing their targeted players. Polanco (as Ibanez was last year) is slightly overpaid, but he was the team’s main target and they did what they needed to do to get their guy.
Also to this point management has been smart about the Roy Halladay sweepstakes. Putting him atop the rotation with Lee makes the Phillies an even more dangerous team, but only at the right price. If it costs Happ, our best prospect and we have to move Blanton, and maybe lose a Eyre and a few others in the prospects, there might be more holes than we began with, just a lot of smaller ones. Bottom line, the Phillies have had a magical two-year run and after this offseason the Phillies are still in a place to potentially extend the excitement for another season.
Team Name: Washington Nationals
2009 Record: 59-103
Team Needs: Starting Pitching, Middle infielder, CatcherTeam Moves: Signed C Ivan “Pudge” Rodriguez, Traded for RHP Brian Bruney, Re-Signed LHP Scott Olsen
Winter Meetings Grade: C+ (pending signing of FA pitchers)
Evaluation: The Nationals went to the Winter Meetings looking for a pitcher or two, a veteran catcher and some middle infield help, and came out with reliever Brian Bruney, acquired in a trade with the New York Yankees, who seems, in hindsight, to have been signed as insurance should Mike MacDougal not take his non-tendering well; Pudge Rodriguez, a veteran catcher who, in hindsight, seems to have been signed as insurance in case Jesus Flores isn’t ready for the start of the season; and Scott Olsen, signed just after the Meetings, who was non-tendered and re-signed to an incentive-based deal as insurance in case he can’t come back from surgery to repair a torn left labrum…The Nationals are still looking for starting pitching and possibly a middle infielder, but with ’09 No.1 overall pick Stephen Strasburg competing for a starting spot and IF Alberto Gonzalez still on the roster, they might just have to go into the season with the roster they have if they can’t convince any more free agents to believe in their Plan.
Projected 2010 Lineup: 1) Nyjer Morgan, CF 2) Ian Desmond, SS 3) Ryan Zimmerman, 3B 4) Adam Dunn, 1B 5) Josh Willingham, LF 6) Elijah Dukes, RF 7) Ivan Rodriguez, C 8) Cristian Guzman, 2B.
Team Name: Florida Marlins
Record: 87-75 6.0 GB; second NL East
Team Needs: Salary Relief (as usual), New Stadium (on the way), and a suitor for Dan Uggla.
Moves Made: Dealt Jeremy Hermida to Boston for Hunter Jones and Jose Alvarez Dealt Matt Lindstrom to Houston for Luis Bryan, Robert Bono and Jorge Jiminez
Winter Meetings Grade: Incomplete, no Uggla deal leaves little to grade them on.
Evaluation: Florida continued to pare payroll moving Matt Lindstrom to the Astros for Luis Bryan, Robert Bono and Jorge Jiminez, who Houston had selected from the Red Sox in the Rule V draft. Moving Uggla remains the priority to the Marlins offseason. The take will determine how successful their offseason will have been. With Gaby Sanchez likely ready to assume first base and Jorge Cantu able to slide across the diamond to play third, incumbent 3B Emilio Bonafacio then would take over for the departed Uggla.
The outfield situation is more settled in Miami. Chris Coghlan, Cameron Maybin and Cody Ross are all young and carry reasonable expectation of improvement. John Baker and Ronny Paulino continue to share the catching responsibilities.
On the mound, Florida returns ace Josh Johnson, whose looming free agency has sparked rumors the righty will be dealt. The Marlins tried to quash any speculation by emphatically declaring Johnson would not be going anywhere. Florida seems content to promote from within with prospects Sean West and Andrew Miller likely to join the rotation accompanying Johnson, Anibal Sanchez and Ricky Nolasco. With Lindstrom gone, Leo Nunez will hold onto the closer job. The Fish have a collection of solid setup men and middle relievers.
As usual the club is putting together a team on the cheap. They’ll contend in July and maybe into August. If their young pitching pans out, they might even make the postseason. But the patchwork plan leaves much to be desired and does almost nothing to build fan loyalty, a commodity the Marlins desperately need.
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Philadelphia Phillies to Acquire Roy Halladay in Three-Team Blockbuster Deal
December 14, 2009 by Shady Botros
Filed under Fan News
The Philadelphia Phillies have agreed to trade for coveted pitcher Roy Halladay in a three-team blockbuster that would send Halladay to the Phillies and Cliff Lee to the Mariners.
Sources say Halladay would agree to a long-term contract extension that would complete the deal. Halladay would go to the National league while Lee would return to the American league where he won the 2008 Cy Young award.
Details of the deal have yet to come out, however it is almost certain Philadelphia would be giving up Lee. The Phillies would acquire prospects for Lee to satisfy the Blue Jays demands, and also send some of their own prospects to Toronto. Philadelphia would also receive some money from the Jays to help pay off Halladay’s massive $15.75 million salary but that number could be negotiated down.
It was rumored that the Phillies coveted Halladay and had wished to acquire him during the summer. Instead they made a trade for Lee, for whom they gave up much less than the rumored package the Blue Jays were asking for.
Even recently, Phillies GM Ruben Amaro Jr. shot down the possibility of a possible Halladay trade.
The question that would come up is why the Phillies would trade for Halladay when they had a sure thing in Cliff Lee, who was the pitcher of the postseason. Lee was absolutely dominant and led the Phillies staff to a World Series appearance.
However the Phillies believe Halladay is a better pitcher than Lee. In the winter meetings the Phillies and Cliff Lee’s agent had some extension talks in which Lee’s agent was rumored to be demanding a CC Sabathia type contract. The Phillies thought that was unreasonable for a 31-year-old pitcher.
So how you trade a pitcher who had one of the greatest postseasons of all time for an ace who has never pitched on a championship-caliber team?
The Phillies believe that you have to go for it now because you could not just let Lee walk away as a free agent. That’s almost impossible to explain to the fans. Instead, the Phillies get a great pitcher for Lee in Halladay, whom they can sign long term.
Halladay led the American league in complete games with 9, went 17-10 with a 2.79 ERA and earned an All-Star game start. He has finished in the top five in Cy Young voting each of the past four years.
Lee, meanwhile, went 4-0 in the postseason with an eye-popping 1.56 postseason ERA.
As for the Mariners, they now have a nasty one-two punch with Lee and the young, up-and-coming ace Felix Hernandez. The Mariners may now be the favorites to win the NL West, as the Angels are in the midst of losing their ace John Lackey.
The move however puts more pressure on Phillies left hander Cole Hamels, who really struggled in the postseason for the Phillies. Hamels was struggling all year and just never seemed to get it together after a great 2008 postseason.
The Phillies, though, seem optimistic about Hamels. He was mentioned in some trade rumors but Philadelphia was reluctant to let the 26-year-old left hander go.
In other baseball news, the Boston Red Sox are expected to sign John Lackey, leaving the Angels as the big losers so far this offseason. L.A. was interested in Halladay and Lackey and missed out on both.
The Red Sox have also made an offer to Cuban pitcher Arlodis Chapman, a left hander who can throw up to 100 miles per hour. But it is probably a long-term project for the time being.
The move puts both the Phillies and Mariners as the favorites to win their divisions. The big question is, who is the better pitcher: Roy Halladay or Cliff Lee?
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